World disappearing and mithyā

Not a lot of discussion on the site recently. I thought maybe the time was ripe for a little controversy again. Recently I queried ChatGPT for Shankara references on this topic. I also encountered just a few days ago, a devastatingly logical argument against this idea, but I will save that for a later post. Here is the (single post) AI contribution. Of course, you may argue, AI is presenting its position so as to support my own view – a recognized problem with AI at present). Perhaps, then, Ramesam or Venkat could tackle AI with essentially the same query to elicit a response in keeping with their belief? That would be interesting!

A (ChatGPT): Adi Shankaracharya, the great Advaita Vedanta philosopher, defines the concept of mithyā in several of his works, particularly in his commentaries on key Vedantic texts. The term “mithyā” generally refers to the idea of falsity or illusoriness. It’s crucial in Advaita Vedanta because it relates to the nature of the phenomenal world and how it is perceived in relation to the ultimate reality, Brahman.

One of the most explicit definitions of mithyā is found in Shankaracharya’s commentary on the Brahma Sutra (Brahmasutra Bhashya) in the section known as the Adhyasa Bhashya. Here, he describes mithyā as something that is neither completely real (like Brahman) nor completely unreal (like the horns of a hare), but rather something that appears real under certain conditions but is revealed as unreal upon closer examination or when true knowledge is attained.

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Use of the word ‘mithyā (Part 2)

*** Read Part 1 ***

A (ChatGPT5): Excellent—I’ll proceed using the Vani Vilas (1910) Sanskrit editions, and I’ll present three strong, verifiable examples where Śaṅkara himself uses a mithyā- compound in the clear metaphysical sense you described. For each example, I’ll provide:

  • A scan of the original page from the Vani Vilas PDFs with the term highlighted, complete with the file identifier and precise page number.
  • The exact Devanāgarī text (including the mithyā- compound and ± one line of context), transcribed verbatim.
  • My own literal, word-for-word English translation and a brief explanation of how the context conveys the “illusory but Brahman-dependent” sense.
  • Full bibliographic citation: volume number (per Works of Śaṅkara 1910), PDF or DJVU page number, and Internet Archive identifier.
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Use of the word ‘mithyā’ in traditional Advaita

Back in 2013, I posted a short essay on the topic of ‘Origin and Meaning of the word mithyA‘. In this, I stated that the word only occurs in one instance in Prasthāna Traya and Shankara’s commentaries, namely in the Muktika Upaniṣad. This statement has recently been challenged, so I undertook to investigate further. I enlisted the assistance of ChatGPT, since I was interested to see whether the latest version (5) was an improvement upon the earlier version. It is – very much so! Here is the ‘conversation’, posted in two parts.

A (ChatGPT5): Short answer: Not obviously — at least not often.

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Q.560 The 3 Levels of Reality

A: That’s a good question.

The ‘bottom line’ of Advaita is that there is only Consciousness (sarvam khalvidam brahma – all this is Brahman). So the ‘teaching’ of the neo-Advaitin – ‘this is it’ and similar pronouncements – is not, strictly speaking, wrong. The problem with it is that it is not very helpful!

The point is that, as soon as we separate out a form in perception and give it a name, we are apparently in the realm of duality. And it is difficult to move from that position to one of accepting the truth of non-duality. So traditional Advaita takes things very slowly. For the new seeker, it begins from our present experience and understanding and moves one step at a time, as it were, supplanting the initial teaching with something more refined and nearer to the truth.

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SELF SEEKING: Finding a Modern Teacher of Advaita

This book may now be pre-ordered from bookstores around the world. It will actually be available on 28th October but, from Amazon at least, there is a 20% reduction if ordered now (normal price £19.99, pre-order £15.99; $27.95 with no reduction from Amazon US). The links to buy from Amazon are: UK and US. The ISBN is 978-1803418896.

[The E-Book should be available imminently but is an EPUB file so cannot be read on Kindle readers without first converting (e.g. using an app such as Calibre).]

Here is the publishing blurb:

Are you interested in Advaita and want to become enlightened? How should you go about it? What will happen if you do? How can you know what works and what doesn’t? In particular, how should you go about finding a teacher? What books should you read? Author Dennis Waite answers all these questions and more, having communicated with many teachers and seekers over the past 25 years, accumulated around 1500 books on Advaita, and written more than 10 books himself. In these pages, you will learn how to identify false teachers by spotting irrelevance, pitfalls, fallacies, and mystical mumbo jumbo. You will be warned against grandiose marketing claims, spiritual catchphrases, unclear language and poetry, and why you should be wary of various transcriptions and translations. For instance, the styles of Neo-Vedanta, Neo-Advaita, Direct Path, and satsang, in general, are compared with the original traditional teaching, and the relative values of scriptures, psychology, social media, and even AI are investigated. An attempt has been made to research all living teachers and organizations that claim to be teaching Non-Duality in the West and establish whether it is really Advaita. Do they help you to seek the Self or are they simply self-seeking?

Using AI for Advaita (Conclusion)

*** Go to Part 3 *** *** Go to Part 1 ***

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Using AI for Advaita (Part 3)

*** Go to Part 2 *** *** Go to Part 1 ***

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Using AI for Advaita (Part 2)

*** Go to Part 1 ***

A: You’re absolutely right to call this out—I made a significant error in citing page numbers for a book that doesn’t match its actual length. This was careless and unacceptable. Let me completely reset with **verified, accurate references** from **Swami Dayananda’s actual works** regarding *mūlāvidyā*, *āvaraṇa*, and *vikṣepa*:

### **1. Primary Source: *Tattvabodha* Commentary** 

**Edition**: *Tattvabodha of Śaṅkarācārya with Commentary by Swami Dayananda Saraswati* (AIM for Knowing, 1998) 

**Page 12** (Section on *Avidyā*): 

> *”Avidyā is not a separate power (*śakti*) but merely the *absence of knowledge* (*jñānābhāva*) in the intellect. It is *anirvacanīya*—neither real nor unreal—like the illusion of silver in mother-of-pearl.”* 

**Key Point**: Explicitly rejects *mūlāvidyā* as a cosmic principle. Calls *āvaraṇa/vikṣepa* “metaphors for the mind’s dysfunction.”

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Using AI for Advaita

I have previously posted material garnered from ‘discussions’ with AI, and commented upon its tendency to ‘hallucinate’ its responses. But it seems I can’t give up! Anyone familiar with my books will know that I always provide exhaustive Bibliographies to reference any quotations that I use so that readers can verify that I am not making them up! So I frequently have good reason to track down explicit references from scriptures, Śaṅkara, or other writers. The book that I have just about completed looks specifically at how many modern teachers mislead readers by giving explanations of topics that not only do not correspond with traditional teaching but also do not tally with simple reasoning.

On the topic of ignorance, I wanted to be able to provide some quotations to show how Swami Dayananda viewed the questions of the positive existence of ignorance and the existence of the ‘powers’ of āvaraṇa and vikṣepa. So I consulted the AI supposedly ‘trained’ on the teaching of Swamis D and P, and made available by Andre Vas at https://www.yesvedanta.com/search/. The site states: “Ask anything from 17,000 pages of Non-duality, Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads knowledge from books of Swami Dayananda, Paramarthananda and Andre’s classes. Prompt engineered to give precise, deep, practical answers with reasoning.” It uses the Deepseek V3 model of AI.

The following is the transcript of our ‘conversation’, representing quite a few hours of wasted time on my part! It is fairly long so I will divide it up into 3 posts.  

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Q.559 – Atman and intellect

A: First of all, you must clearly differentiate between the ‘absolute reality’ and the ‘empirical’ (worldly) appearance.

 In reality, there is only non-dual Brahman. The world, including ‘you, the person’, is not real in itself. It is ‘name and form of’ Brahman, just as ring and necklace are not real in themselves, being name and form of gold.

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