Ignorance or Absence of Knowledge? – 2

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Ignorance or Absence of Knowledge?

Part 1 – (This will be a multi-part post.)

This is a topic that I addressed extensively in the second ‘Confusions’ book – ‘Confusions in Advaita Vedanta: Ignorance and its Removal’ (due out by Summer 2025). But it has appeared in various guises over the past 2 or 3 months on the Advaitin List. One particular member – Sudhanshu Shekhar – has been particularly vociferous in espousing the view that they are not equivalent. He is extremely knowledgeable, especially regarding the text ‘Advaita Siddhi’, by the 16th-17th Century author Madhusūdana Sarasvatī, which strongly supports this idea. In ‘Confusions 2’, I strongly advise against looking at many of these post-Śaṅkara authors on the grounds that a) they are extremely difficult, often verging on incomprehensible; and b) their views, ostensibly to ‘clarify’ the views of Śaṅkara, mostly seem to do nothing of the kind, instead adding merely academic, intellectual arguments that confuse the issues.

Be that as it may, a recent post by Sudhanshu apparently stated the issues clearly so that the arguments could be examined. Unfortunately, the post contained lots of Sanskrit and was not immediately comprehensible to me, whose Sanskrit knowledge is largely limited to interpreting the Devanagari script (very slowly) and looking words up in the dictionary. Accordingly, I decided to put the text to AI (ChatGPT) for interpretation. A very interesting ‘discussion’ followed, which actually opened my mind to an aspect that had not previously occurred to me and that slightly mitigates my previous, hardline stance.

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Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part 12

Part 11

5 Preparation

5-7 TaittiriyA Upanishad: SikshA Valli

5-7-1 Anuvaka 2 The Study of Pronunciation Chanting Veda mantras is a spiritual discipline. The science of phonetics defines the rules of pronunciation. If not properly learned, the mistakes will continue for future generations. One must memorize the mantras before chanting; reading from the book is not considered chanting. Learning is complete only when chanting is done from memory. Once memorized, fast chanting is practiced. In ancient times everyone thoroughly studied the Vedas (minimum of 8 years and maximum of 12)., they have various ways of chanting: word by word and words in different sequences: (1) 1-2, 2- 3, 3-4, (2) 1-2-2-1-1-2, (3) 1-2- 2-1-1-2-3-3-2-1-1-2-3-2-3-3-2-2-3-4-4-3-2-2-3-4, etc. While chanting in different permutations and combinations, rules of combination (Sandhi) are applied Thus, every Vedic student is thorough with every letter of the Vedas not just every word. In a ritual, chanting is at a medium pace to make every letter pronounced and heard clearly. While teaching, chanting is slow-paced, so the student correctly catches each letter. There are rules for combining and splitting the letters.

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Is Reality Knowable?

The affirmation that reality is not knowable is itself an assertion of knowledge about reality. Does this not, though, amount to an example of the law of non-contradiction? To deny that it is so, involves the law of non-contradiction – so this proves that reality is knowable?

(X). The assertion “this sentence is false” is self-contradictory. From that contradiction, one cannot draw the conclusion that the sentence is in fact true. It is simply evidence of the fact that language can be used to construct self-contradictory statements.

(Martin) Rather than self-contradictory, isn’t the quoted statement in the original question a case of second-order language, that is, meta-language, as with so many paradoxes and apparent contradictions?

(X). Are you suggesting that, because it involves meta-language, it thereby avoids contradiction?

(Martin). Yes, but rather than meta-language (my mistake) the quoted passage is, seems to me, an elliptical statement. To complete it one should add: ‘by the conceptual mind’, i.e., ‘not knowable by the conceptual mind’. Real (ultimate) Reality, being non-dual, cannot be known (as you well know) as a conjugation or conjunction of a subject and an object. But it can be ‘Known’ through a unitary vision or intuition – the intuiting subject abating or subsiding as an individual by that very act. There is only one ‘Knower’ or Subject, and that is Reality Itself. ‘One without a second’. Does this prove that reality is knowable?” (under the text in bold letters). Yes, with that proviso.

(X) (Previously he had written: ‘I think one would have to insert ‘’by the conceptual mind’’ in two places to make it explicit that it is referring to conceptual knowledge, not non-conceptual non-dual knowledge. Or is your point that two different kinds of knowledge are involved in the original statement? In any case, I still don’t see how it constitutes a proof in the logical sense.’

(Martin) Correct, thank you. There is a tendency nowadays in Neo-advaita and other circles to put down the mind, let alone terms such as ‘intellectual’, ‘spiritual’, ‘metaphysical’ ‘mysticism’ (‘It’s just mind stuff’… only intellectual knowledge, or understanding’, etc.).

‘Experiential’, ‘experience’ alone are admitted in the vocabulary. I like, though, the expression ‘knowledge-experience’. All experience, and all understanding, reside in the mind (formerly, sometimes, ‘the Heart’), but the latter can be transcended.

(X) The irony is that putting down the thinking mind is itself a judgment of the thinking mind. One way to view it, which I find quite useful, is that the thinking mind can help reveal its own limits, and that can clear the way to insight that transcends the thinking mind. The classic metaphor is the wooden stick used to help burn the fire, and, at the end, the stick itself is thrown into the fire as well. The stick does not cause the burning, and it is ultimately itself burned, but that does not imply it is useless and should be tossed off into the bushes instead of skillfully used to facilitate the burning.

Bhagavad Gita – the meaning of sacrifice

In shloka 3.9, Krishna tells Arjuna,

Aside from action for the purpose of sacrifice, this world is bound by action. Perform action for the purpose of sacrifice, Arjuna, free from attachment.

In doing so, he instructs Arjuna that the only action he should perform should be “free from attachment.” This is known as ‘sacrifice’ because it is the act of renouncing or giving up attachments. Being free from attachment, one has knowledge of Brahman. As Krishna says in the fourth chapter (4.23),

The work of one who is free from attachment, who is liberated, whose thought is established in knowledge and is done only for sacrifice, one’s karma wholly melts away.

The concept of sacrifice comes from the Vedas, where recitation of a mantra was seen as the sacrifice. Continue reading

Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part11

Part 10

Chapter 5 Preparation

5-6 Prasna Upanishad

5-6-4 Prasna 3.10
Though all the questions have been answered, there is an extended answer for the 4th question. How does the prAna leave the body? As death nears, our thoughts are no longer determined by our will. The willpower becomes weak in old age and the latent tendencies become strong. UdAnA pulls subtle and causal bodies and they enter the next body, the blueprint of which is already available.

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Q. 556 Unmanifest

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Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part 10

Part 9

Chapter 5 Preparation

5-6 Prasna Upanishad
5-6-1 Prasna 2.1 to 2.8

The subtle body is the most important of the three types of body. In the subtle body, PrAna is the most important. There is no gradation in it. All prAnAs are equally sacred, whether of a human or lower living beings. Meditation on Hiranyagarbha, the cosmic subtle body, is a powerful sAdhanA. There is respect for life which purifies the mind.
The second student, Bhargava asks a set of questions. How many divine principles sustain a living being? How many of them talk about their glory? Which one is the greatest? The teacher Pippalada replies that the divine principles are space, air, fire, water, earth, speech, mind, eye, and ear.

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Q.555 State Express

(A few people might appreciate the joke! Google will give you the answer.)

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