Dialog with Jeff Foster (part 1)

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Continuing to look for essays and reviews etc. that are no longer available online, I came across the following dialog that I had with Jeff Foster in June 2007, after I had read his book ‘Life Without a Centre: awakening from the dream of separation’. In fact, the dialog is still available at the advaita.org.uk site but, since that site does not seem to be much visited these days, I thought it would be a good idea to republish here, as a follow-up to the recently posted article on neo-Advaita. A link to an extract from the book is included below and you can purchase the book at Amazon.UK or Amazon.com. Jeff’s website is here.  

This post will be in several parts. This first part contains our initial exchange; the remainder will contain the ensuing discussion. Readers should always remember that this was nearly 20 years ago and views may change. I understand that Jeff has said that he no longer holds some of the views that he did then.

In all parts, my words are in blue (Dennis Waite) and Jeff’s are in red (Jeff Foster).

The reason I am writing is that Julian Noyce (Non-Duality Press) periodically sends me review copies of new books and, some time ago he sent me yours, which I read with interest. I just sent the following message back to him and he suggested that I contact you directly.

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Surviving Death

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Q: What are some scientific arguments for consciousness being able to preserve itself after the death of the body?

A (Martin): There are some ‘facts’ or experiences by individuals in favor of what goes under the name of NDEs (near-death experiences) and LAD (life after death), but I will restrict my answer to the teachings of Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta – and my convictions (for what they are worth). And that, without holding a belief in the naive or popular notion of reincarnation, that is, reincarnation of the body

Consciousness (aka awareness), being the only or ultimate (exclusive) reality from the metaphysical viewpoint, does not need to preserve itself at any time. It simply IS, and is beyond the time dimension, which is an unreality for IT. This means that there is no death – of anything or any being – only apparent transformation of phenomena properly so-called. ‘I’ (‘you’) am not a phenomenon. ‘I’ am consciousness, pure, indescribable, and immutable. Obviously, by ‘I’ I don’t mean this body-mind.

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kenopanishad

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Review of the commentary by Swami Dayananda Saraswati, Dennis Waite, ca. 2011

kenopanishad, Swami Dayananda, Arsha Vidya Centre Research and Publication, 2008, ISBN 978-81-906059. (230 pages), $12 from Arsha Vidya Bookstore, Arsha Vidya Gurukulam, Institute of Vedanta & Sanskrit, P.O. Box 1059, Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania, 18353, USA Tel: 570.992.2339 (http://books.arshavidya.org/) The book has an Introduction, Chapter-by-Chapter Index to the mantras, an alphabetical index to mantras, which are in Devanagari with Roman Transliteration and word-by-word meanings. There is extensive commentary and some quotations from Shankara’s bhAShya are included in footnotes. There is also a Conclusion and a section at the back with the complete Upanishad in Devanagari.

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Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part 31

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Part 30

Chapter 6 JnAna and Moksha
6-9 Taittiriya Upanishad BrahmAnanda Valli
6-9-2 AnuvAka 1(Pt 2) and AnuvAka 2 to 4
Upanishad describes Brahman as the source of creation which is the Tatastha (distant) lakshna of Brahman. Everything in the creation is born out of Brahman. Five elements, namely, space, air, fire, water, earth are born in that order. Plants and herbs are born from earth, food is born from plants and herbs, and from food, living being is born. The idea is that a human being is born from Brahman and to emphasize the idea, the teacher points out the different parts of the physical body, namely, head, right side in south, left side in north, middle portion is the body, and the portion below the waist as tail. The gross body is born of Brahman. A person is inclined to take gross body as Brahman. It is an interim position because gross body is finite and is discarded later. The Upanishad teaches discrimination of five-sheaths to understand formless Brahman. The gross body is food-sheath (Annamaya Kosa), made of food.

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Traditional versus Neo-Advaita (Conclusion)

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*** Read Part 3 *** *** Go to Part 1 ***

The term ‘neo-Vedanta’ is used these days to describe the teaching of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda followers. It is characterized by ideas such as the need to ‘experience’ Brahman through samādhi, since Self-knowledge is only an ‘intellectual’ understanding. Up until the late 20th C, it was also sometimes called neo-Advaita. It diverges from the Advaita as systematized by Śaṅkara because Vivekananda was adversely influenced by Yoga philosophy, incorporating some of their teaching and denigrating the scriptural authority of the Vedas. I am not addressing this further in this article. Read the excellent book by Anantanand Rambachan – ‘The Limits of Scripture: Vivekananda’s Reinterpretation of the Vedas’ – if interested. (Amazon UK; Amazon US)

My own book ‘Confusions in Advaita Vedanta – Knowledge, Experience and Enlightenment’ also has an account of the differences, and sources of confusion. (Exotic India; Amazon US). (N.B. there only seems to be a hardback available at Amazon UK at present, at a ridiculous price. Exotic India is much cheaper. It is in US but has free postage to UK. Alternatively, probably cheapest of all from the publisher, Indica Books, in India.)

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Eight Upanishads (Part-wise) Part 30

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Part 29

Chapter 6 JnAna and Moksha                                                                                          6-8 Prasna Upanishad
6-8-2 Prasna 4.7 to 4.9
5th question is where do they get merged? The entire cosmos is resting on AtmA. It is the support. It provides 3 fundamental things for the entire AnatmA prapancha: Sat, Chit, and Ananda. IS-ness of the universe doesn’t belong to the universe. I, the experiencing consciousness, lend existence to this world like as in a dream, I, the observer, lend existence to the dream world. The entire world is supported by I, the AtmA, the witnessing consciousness which is in and through the three states of experience. The Upanishad gives the example of birds who go to a tree for lodging. The birds are supported by the tree.

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Quantum Mechanics

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Q (Quora): How does the theory of quantum mechanics affect our picture of consciousness?

A (Martin): The two notions (QM and consciousness) are incommensurable in all respects, which should be obvious:
a) QM is a theory referable to reality or an aspect of reality (the microcosm); consciousness, on the other hand, is a known reality, not a theory – not only a fact but that which is behind, the substratum of, all facts and movements of the mind.
b) The reality that is consciousness does not need to be proven for it is immediate, direct, unstultifiable or unsublatable. Everything else – objects or phenomena, thought-constructions, etc. – are stultifiable.

That means that there is not even an approximation between the theory of QM and reality per se. It would be a category mistake to relate one to the other unless using such exercise as analogy or suggestion. In this sense, there are two or three things that can be said:
1) Reality/consciousness is limitless, like the referent (or an aspect thereof) of QM, but the former is un-measurable, unlike QM which is amenable to measurement/quantification and statistical verification
2) Reality is non-local (Bell’s theorem), like QM.
3) Consciousness/reality does not depend on anything, while QM is theory-dependent.

Traditional versus Neo-Advaita (Part 3)

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*** Read Part 2 *** *** Go to Part 1 ***

Advaita refers to the unchanging reality by the Sanskrit term paramārtha and to the constantly changing appearance by vyavahāra. Within this phenomenal realm, separate individuals and objects are recognized and a creator-god, Īśvara, uses the power of māyā to obscure the truth and project the apparent world. It thus affirms that our experience does not tally with its non-dual claims. It acknowledges an appearance of duality, which is at odds with the reality. It also states that we can never directly know the reality. Accordingly, its effective teaching strategy is to successively negate the appearance. That which ‘remains’ and cannot be negated must be the reality. Once the reality is thus effectively (but not literally) known, then it is also realized that the appearance, too, is that same reality.

This process inevitably takes time, from the vantage point of the seeker who is still mired at the level of appearance. The ignorance that prevents the immediate apprehension of reality is effectively in the mind and it is at the level of the mind that this ignorance must be removed. Knowledge must be introduced in such a way that the mind can accept it, using reason and experience. Just as a student is unable to appreciate the subtleties of quantum physics without having the preliminary grounding in mathematics and science, so the seeker is unable to assimilate the ‘bottom-line’ truth of Advaita since it is so contrary to his everyday experience.

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Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part 29

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Part 28

Part 30

Chapter 6 JnAna and Moksha
 6-7 Mundaka Upanishad

6-7-19 Mundaka 3.2.7 and 3.2.8
The Upanishad describes the process of videha-mukti, that is, when a jivanmukta dies. A human being is a combination of material part – called anAtma and sentient part called AtmA. AnAtmA is made of gross, subtle and causal bodies or alternatively five sheaths of food, vital forces, mind, intellect, and bliss. The enclosed consciousness is AtmA component. When a jivanmukta dies, anAtmA part merges into total anAtmA. Gross body merges into cosmic gross body called virAt. Subtle body into total subtle body called, Hiranyagarbha. Since there is no karmic balance, there is no causal body. In Prasna Upanishad, anAtmA part of an individual is divided into 16 parts. The Upanishad says that of them, each of 15 parts merges into corresponding totality. The Upanishad is silent about the 16th part. According to Swami ParmArthananda, the 16th part is the name of a jnAni that remains in the world for the disciples to worship. The consciousness part merges into total consciousness without any travel like pot space merging in total space when the pot breaks. An ignorant person takes rebirth in a body according to his karmAs.

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Eight Upanishads (Topic-wise) Part 28

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Part 27

Part 29

Chapter 6 JnAna and Moksha

6-7 Mundaka Upanishad

6-7-11 Mundaka 3.1.3 to 3.1.6
When a jiva is disillusioned by the world of duality and is restless, he seeks permanent solution. He turns to spirituality. It is a life-turning moment. He discriminates between permanent and temporary and finally recognizes his true nature, namely, consciousness. As consciousness, he is the source of creation. All worldly experiences are like ripples in the vast mirror of consciousness which he is. He has Self-realization. He transcends all actions. Action does not taint him though he is ever-engaged in action. He knows that his true nature is consciousness which enlivens the vital forces running through body. He is not interested in boasting of his luminosity because being established in Self, he delights in it. He sees same Self everywhere. The enlightened one does not ‘see’ anything else because it is mithyA. PrAna gives life to the body. Self gives life to prAna. Hence It is vital force of vital forces.
The Self is realized by practice of spiritual disciplines, namely, truth, concentration, knowledge, continence and the like. Truth is the path of gods and leads to victory.

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