Tag Archives: world

The jñānī after enlightenment

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In my last post – The Barren World – Venkat and Michael made some comments about the status of the jñānī after enlightenment and I suggested that we make this the subject of another post so as not to confuse the issues.

Conicidentally, Sri V Subrahmanian has just made the following post to the Advaitin List. In it he lists numerous quotations from the scriptures and Shankara which clearly indicate the continuance of the world and the jñānī ‘s continued activity in it. I thought that this could form the basis of any further discussion on this aspect and Subbu-ji has kindly agreed for me to post it here.

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The Barren World

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In my last post, I promised that I would provide another (clinching?) argument as to why the world does not disappear on enlightenment. Here it is. I use this in the book that I have just completed, which provides lots of examples of how many modern teachers misrepresent the various topics in Advaita, leading the seeker on a merry path that is unlikely to lead to enlightenment. (I have only just sent this to the publisher so it will not appear until the end of next year at the earliest. It will be called: ‘Finding the Self: A Guide Through the Minefield of Modern Advaita’.

The metaphor often used by those who maintain that the word does disappear is the rope-snake. The ignorant traveler sees a snake in front of him and is afraid. When light is shone onto the object, it is revealed as a rope and, they say, the snake ‘disappears’. Similarly, the ignorant seeker initially believes that the world is real. But when the knowledge of Advaita illuminates the issue, the world disappears. (Interestingly, they do not say, by direct analogy, that what was thought to be the world is realized to be Brahman, which would be the true situation.)

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World disappearing and mithyā

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Not a lot of discussion on the site recently. I thought maybe the time was ripe for a little controversy again. Recently I queried ChatGPT for Shankara references on this topic. I also encountered just a few days ago, a devastatingly logical argument against this idea, but I will save that for a later post. Here is the (single post) AI contribution. Of course, you may argue, AI is presenting its position so as to support my own view – a recognized problem with AI at present). Perhaps, then, Ramesam or Venkat could tackle AI with essentially the same query to elicit a response in keeping with their belief? That would be interesting!

Q: Where does Shankara define what he means by the word मिथ्या and what does he say?

A (ChatGPT): Adi Shankaracharya, the great Advaita Vedanta philosopher, defines the concept of mithyā in several of his works, particularly in his commentaries on key Vedantic texts. The term “mithyā” generally refers to the idea of falsity or illusoriness. It’s crucial in Advaita Vedanta because it relates to the nature of the phenomenal world and how it is perceived in relation to the ultimate reality, Brahman.

One of the most explicit definitions of mithyā is found in Shankaracharya’s commentary on the Brahma Sutra (Brahmasutra Bhashya) in the section known as the Adhyasa Bhashya. Here, he describes mithyā as something that is neither completely real (like Brahman) nor completely unreal (like the horns of a hare), but rather something that appears real under certain conditions but is revealed as unreal upon closer examination or when true knowledge is attained.

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Q.560 The 3 Levels of Reality

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Q: It seems to me that so many questions on Advaita Vedanta are explained with reference to the 3 levels of reality: pratibhasa, vyavahara and paramartha – why then do we not see more reference to these levels in books about Advaita? I have found in my reading very few that mention them up front, or as a matter of great importance. And, of course, hardly ever mentioned, if at all, in Neo-Advaita tomes. 

A: That’s a good question.

The ‘bottom line’ of Advaita is that there is only Consciousness (sarvam khalvidam brahma – all this is Brahman). So the ‘teaching’ of the neo-Advaitin – ‘this is it’ and similar pronouncements – is not, strictly speaking, wrong. The problem with it is that it is not very helpful!

The point is that, as soon as we separate out a form in perception and give it a name, we are apparently in the realm of duality. And it is difficult to move from that position to one of accepting the truth of non-duality. So traditional Advaita takes things very slowly. For the new seeker, it begins from our present experience and understanding and moves one step at a time, as it were, supplanting the initial teaching with something more refined and nearer to the truth.

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Four Verses from Bhagavad-Gita

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 [This Blog Post is presented for advanced students of Advaita Vedanta as a case study in ‘Reflection’ (mananaM).]

It seems to me, as though, there is a fine thread of commonality running through the four verses 4.24; 6.29; 9.4 and 9.5 of Bhagavad-Gita, coming from the Chapters titled respectively, jnAnakarmasamnyAsayoga, dhyAnayoga and rAjavidyArAjaguhyayoga.

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Same Old Question – One more Answer

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Question: Does a jnAni see a world?

Hishi Ryo (aka Thomas Felber) answers: 

[This post only scratches the surface, as this topic can be viewed from many angles per shloka, mantra, sUtra, prakaraNa etc. Due to the amount of texts and references, the answer can quickly become lengthy. As long as there are glimpses to ponder, we can all learn something.  ]

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Q.559 – Atman and intellect

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Q: Does Atman make use of intellect? Or does intellect function automatically with Atman just being the witness?

This is because, identification with body mind is possible only when we think. Liberation is possible when we overcome this wrong idea. Either way, it appears that Atman makes use of the intellect to get bound or liberated. 

It is said that Atman is ever free and illusion and bondage are concepts only. But this concept can appear to Atman only when intellect is used.

A: First of all, you must clearly differentiate between the ‘absolute reality’ and the ‘empirical’ (worldly) appearance.

 In reality, there is only non-dual Brahman. The world, including ‘you, the person’, is not real in itself. It is ‘name and form of’ Brahman, just as ring and necklace are not real in themselves, being name and form of gold.

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The Limitations of Metaphor

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Advaita teaching frequently makes use of metaphor in its explanations of the various topics. These are indisputably invaluable, although there is also the danger of taking them beyond the realm of their applicability and either drawing erroneous conclusions or simply failing to see the point that is being made. This also highlights the necessity of using the metaphor that is most appropriate for conveying the message. Take the example of sarvam khalvidam brahma – all this (world) is really Brahman.

We might start with the ubiquitous rope-snake metaphor. We think we see a snake but the light is poor. (We think we see a world of separate objects, but we haven’t yet gained the Self-knowledge of Advaita – our perception is covered by ignorance.) When we bring torchlight to shine into the darkness, we see that it is really a rope. (Having been taught Advaita, we realize that the world is really name and form of Brahman.)

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Q.558 Knowledge and Experience

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Q: I am still confused about the relative value of experience and knowledge. Some teachers seem to say that scriptures only give you ‘intellectual’ knowledge and you then have to convert this into actual ‘experience’ in order to become enlightened. But then there are metaphors like rope-snake and dream-waking. The snake that we experience is not real and we have to wake up from the dream. This means gaining knowledge, doesn’t it?

A: You cannot experience the Self/Brahman/Absolute. But then neither can you ‘know’ it in the usual sense of the word. Reality is non-dual. The empirical, experienced world of duality is an appearance; name and form of Brahman. All of this can be intellectually understood by the mind. When it is firmly believed to be true, without any doubt, that is enlightenment.

You should also understand that it is not the case that ‘all of this is unreal’. ‘Unreal’ is not the correct adjective. Every empirical perception is name and form of Brahman and therefore ultimately real. Just not ‘real’ as its perceived ‘object’. This is why the world does not disappear on enlightenment. The scriptures tell us ‘sarvam khalvidam brahma’ – all of this is Brahman. So, if it disappeared, it would mean that Brahman disappeared!

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Dialog with Jeff Foster (conc.)

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*** Read Part 2 *** *** Go to Part 1 ***

13. You then talk about:“the collapse into not-knowing, the profound mystery…”I don’t know (!) what this means – sounds a bit too mystical for me.

– Well, I suppose those words do sound a bit mystical! I’m talking about the huge relief, the liberation, the sense of freedom when the mind’s endless search for something MORE than the present moment dies down, and there is only what is, and nothing more. It’s the “profound mystery” because nothing can be known about it.

OK, I’m happy with ‘relief’ and ‘liberation’ but I would use ‘fascination’ instead of ‘mystery’ – after all, ‘I amThat’. ‘Not-knowing’ is quite misleading.

14. “If anything, I’m saying the exact opposite, that the Mystery could NEVER be contained in ANY belief (especially simplistic neo-advaita beliefs!) ”Words never ‘contain’ the ‘mystery’, but they can be used to point to it. “Everything is here right now” does not provide any pointers that might overcome the essential ignorance.

– Yes, words as pointers….of course.

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